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ILAM - EASTERN KURDISTAN; Pahli/fayli ancestral homeland
Topic Started: Jan 19 13, 9:19 (18,764 Views)
Halo
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Dlovan
Mar 17 13, 9:14
Simko
Mar 17 13, 12:26


JJ, do you remember when you said that central eastern and north eastern Kurdistan tend to have so called 'persian' influence in their music(bullshit, the most disrespectful thing about kurdish music I've ever heard) and that only you faylees used, how shall we say 'pure kurdish music'. Well if you go to 5.50 in the video you'll see "persian influence" as you say in the performance.
It has some Persian influence. I can hear it.
I'm sorry but what you say is irrelevant because you know nothing about kurdish music nor do you know anything about persian music.
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Alasha: Asking and discussing is not forbidden, rather prohibited on this forum
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Pleasedon't spread propaganda against my clan. I never stated faylis use "pure Kurdish music", I was talking specifically about the instrument and the way it was played, in a Persian style. So please don't accuse me of these things.

And Dlovan wtf is Persian about them? Are you talking about clothes? because they are completely Kurdish, and yes Lors wear them, but frankly the Iranian government cannot tell apart "Lors" from "Kurds"(Faylis).
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Xoybun
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The song, so much Persian in it.
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Tevger
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Wow! It looks like one of the most ferile areas of Kurdistan. The woods, the greens remind me some how of Dersim, even though I believe Dersim has higher and bigger mountain ranges. Thanks for the pictures heval!

Is this by any chance from Ilam/Kermanshah dialect?

'' Don't touch me doctor! My death is necessary for the Kurds to wake up''
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Halo
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jjmuneer
Mar 17 13, 10:10
Pleasedon't spread propaganda against my clan. I never stated faylis use "pure Kurdish music", I was talking specifically about the instrument and the way it was played, in a Persian style. So please don't accuse me of these things.

And Dlovan wtf is Persian about them? Are you talking about clothes? because they are completely Kurdish, and yes Lors wear them, but frankly the Iranian government cannot tell apart "Lors" from "Kurds"(Faylis).
No but you said it was more common among the more Sorani speaking kurds in EK to play with "persian influence". Which made me be belive that you think only Laki speaking kurds plays pure kurdish music in EK. But from what I saw in the music performed by the ilamis who are faylees, I saw that they played just like any other krudish music group from EK playing classical kurdish music which you say contains of persian influence( a very big false insult).

Now tell me what is different from the instruments in this song and the song I posted before and what makes those instruments persian. You never managed to show me a persian song played the same way as the song I posted. You showed me a very slow persian song which was more like the opposite style of the style used in the music performance I posted.

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Tevger
Mar 18 13, 1:11
Wow! It looks like one of the most ferile areas of Kurdistan. The woods, the greens remind me some how of Dersim, even though I believe Dersim has higher and bigger mountain ranges. Thanks for the pictures heval!

Is this by any chance from Ilam/Kermanshah dialect?

:P Ez ku iro pir xemginim Le yare gul nare Cab levina negirinim, le yare le yare, hevale Nisan ji de ev nabinim, gul yare Nisan ji de ev nabinim, gul yare Derde dile min koriyeh Le yare, gul nare Xussan cane min xariye, le yare Le yare, hevale Ditar maye kiyamete, gul nare Ditar maye kiyamete, gul nare Ceylan kustin, jinan birin, le yare Le yare, gul nare van firitin le koceh va bazare :P

I belive you can guess which dialect now :D

Kurdish Kurmanci song by kurds from Northern Khorasan
Edited by Halo, Mar 18 13, 1:32.
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Bestoun
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WOW Îlam is so beautiful.. My parents are from Riwanser and speak soranî yet they call themselves kirmashanî :kflag:
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ALAN
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^^ i like your name :)
Russian Girenak Joseph, who visited Kirkuk in Kurdistan as a part of his tour throu the 1870 - 1873 AD, who published the results of his trip & his studies later in 1879, in the 4th volume in the Bulletin of the Caucasus department of the Royal Geographical Russian Society estimated Kirkuk's population as many as 12-50,000 people, & he emphasized that except 40 Christian families, the rest of the population were Kurds. As for The Turkmen & Arabs, they have not been already existed at the time.
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Dlovan
Mar 17 13, 11:51
The song, so much Persian in it.
Yeh ma that halparke is soo Kurdish that it is pretty similar to Sorani one in SK and Kurmanji in NK, so if our one is persian than so are other Kurds one.
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Simko
Mar 18 13, 1:18
jjmuneer
Mar 17 13, 10:10
Pleasedon't spread propaganda against my clan. I never stated faylis use "pure Kurdish music", I was talking specifically about the instrument and the way it was played, in a Persian style. So please don't accuse me of these things.<br /><br />And Dlovan wtf is Persian about them? Are you talking about clothes? because they are completely Kurdish, and yes Lors wear them, but frankly the Iranian government cannot tell apart "Lors" from "Kurds"(Faylis).
No but you said it was more common among the more Sorani speaking kurds in EK to play with "persian influence". Which made me be belive that you think only Laki speaking kurds plays pure kurdish music in EK. But from what I saw in the music performed by the ilamis who are faylees, I saw that they played just like any other krudish music group from EK playing classical kurdish music which you say contains of persian influence( a very big false insult). <br /><br />Now tell me what is different from the instruments in this song and the song I posted before and what makes those instruments persian. You never managed to show me a persian song played the same way as the song I posted. You showed me a very slow persian song which was more like the opposite style of the style used in the music performance I posted. <br /><br />
Ok look I admit I made a mistake, my bad. By the way nice video you posted on Ilam.
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Xoybun
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Simko
Mar 18 13, 1:18
jjmuneer
Mar 17 13, 10:10
Pleasedon't spread propaganda against my clan. I never stated faylis use "pure Kurdish music", I was talking specifically about the instrument and the way it was played, in a Persian style. So please don't accuse me of these things.

And Dlovan wtf is Persian about them? Are you talking about clothes? because they are completely Kurdish, and yes Lors wear them, but frankly the Iranian government cannot tell apart "Lors" from "Kurds"(Faylis).
No but you said it was more common among the more Sorani speaking kurds in EK to play with "persian influence". Which made me be belive that you think only Laki speaking kurds plays pure kurdish music in EK. But from what I saw in the music performed by the ilamis who are faylees, I saw that they played just like any other krudish music group from EK playing classical kurdish music which you say contains of persian influence( a very big false insult).

Now tell me what is different from the instruments in this song and the song I posted before and what makes those instruments persian. You never managed to show me a persian song played the same way as the song I posted. You showed me a very slow persian song which was more like the opposite style of the style used in the music performance I posted.

Compare the song with one of Hassan Zirak's and you will understand that the song you posted has Persian influence...or compare with Mamle
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Dlovan
Mar 18 13, 11:52
Simko
Mar 18 13, 1:18

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Compare the song with one of Hassan Zirak's and you will understand that the song you posted has Persian influence...or compare with Mamle
Are you trolling or just stupid? Hasan Zirak is also a fayli, so if you render Ilami music which by rule should be more Kurdish considering it is fro mthe Kurdish heartland to be Persian influenced, then so is Hasan Zirek.

And secondly Hasan Zirek doesn't do Halparkes, he sings solo, so I'm not sure what you are talking about.

Thirdly where the fk is the Persian influence?

Fourth just don't look at this page or this thread if you think it's persian influence, I bet your family is persian or something.
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Halo
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jjmuneer
Mar 18 13, 9:48
Simko
Mar 18 13, 1:18

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Ok look I admit I made a mistake, my bad. By the way nice video you posted on Ilam.
:waveflag:
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Halo
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Dlovan
Mar 18 13, 11:52
Simko
Mar 18 13, 1:18

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Compare the song with one of Hassan Zirak's and you will understand that the song you posted has Persian influence...or compare with Mamle
Are you trolling or are you just ignorant? First of all, Hassan Zirak didn't sing classical kurdish music, he sang more popular music, like extremely beautiful street music. He was like a celebrity, he didn't sing in larger groups, he was the more solo man as JJ said. While the music that is preformed in a group like shown in the video about Ilam you'll see classical kurdish music. Mamle the great, he used to sing more art rich kurdish music, the bit more classical.




Now tell me my ignorant heval, is this also "so much persian" as you put it?

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Xoybun
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Mamle is good, nothing Persian about his music. How is Zirak a Fayli Kurd? Are there many Faylis in Mahabad province? By the way, I'm not trolling you guys, I don't see what I would get by trolling you...
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jjmuneer
Mar 19 13, 3:34
Dlovan
Mar 18 13, 11:52

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Are you trolling or just stupid? Hasan Zirak is also a fayli, so if you render Ilami music which by rule should be more Kurdish considering it is fro mthe Kurdish heartland to be Persian influenced, then so is Hasan Zirek.

And secondly Hasan Zirek doesn't do Halparkes, he sings solo, so I'm not sure what you are talking about.

Thirdly where the fk is the Persian influence?

Fourth just don't look at this page or this thread if you think it's persian influence, I bet your family is persian or something.
Oh please please, says the one who is from a city where they worship Persians :P. My father was a Peshmerga, he fought for Kurdistan, unlike Faylis who haven't done a shizz yet. No offense, but calling me and my family Persian is ridiculous and very VERY offending.
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Halo
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Dlovan
Mar 19 13, 9:23
Mamle is good, nothing Persian about his music. How is Zirak a Fayli Kurd? Are there many Faylis in Mahabad province? By the way, I'm not trolling you guys, I don't see what I would get by trolling you...
You call classical kurdish music persian. If you're not a troll and ignorant then you're a nationalist persian. I already showed you Mamle the great(much better than good) singing classical kurdish music and if you compare it to the classical kurdish music shown in the video you'll see they are just the same except we live in another century age and NO kurds these day sing like they used to during Hassan Zirak or Mamle etc. It's simply too hard and we have all these instruments backing us up.
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jjmuneer
Mar 19 13, 3:34
Dlovan
Mar 18 13, 11:52

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Are you trolling or just stupid? Hasan Zirak is also a fayli, so if you render Ilami music which by rule should be more Kurdish considering it is fro mthe Kurdish heartland to be Persian influenced, then so is Hasan Zirek.

And secondly Hasan Zirek doesn't do Halparkes, he sings solo, so I'm not sure what you are talking about.

Thirdly where the fk is the Persian influence?

Fourth just don't look at this page or this thread if you think it's persian influence, I bet your family is persian or something.
How do you know he is feyli?
From Erzingan to Îlam
From Gire Spî to Agirî
Kurdistan will be free
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Xoybun
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Simko
Mar 20 13, 1:04
Dlovan
Mar 19 13, 9:23
Mamle is good, nothing Persian about his music. How is Zirak a Fayli Kurd? Are there many Faylis in Mahabad province? By the way, I'm not trolling you guys, I don't see what I would get by trolling you...
You call classical kurdish music persian. If you're not a troll and ignorant then you're a nationalist persian. I already showed you Mamle the great(much better than good) singing classical kurdish music and if you compare it to the classical kurdish music shown in the video you'll see they are just the same except we live in another century age and NO kurds these day sing like they used to during Hassan Zirak or Mamle etc. It's simply too hard and we have all these instruments backing us up.
I'm not Persian, but be honest with yourself, can't you hear that the music has some Persian influence? Doesn't fit in with Kurdish music...sorry
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Dlovan
Mar 19 13, 9:26
jjmuneer
Mar 19 13, 3:34

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Oh please please, says the one who is from a city where they worship Persians :P. My father was a Peshmerga, he fought for Kurdistan, unlike Faylis who haven't done a shizz yet. No offense, but calling me and my family Persian is ridiculous and very VERY offending.
Please tell me what you know about Ilam? And how do we worship Persians? Because I can say the same about southern Kurds 500 years ago or northern Kurds 200 years ago. Whilst Faylis in Ilam always maintained semi-independance for atleast 800 years, known as Lorestan, but nice try.

My father was deported out of the country he was living because he was "iranian", well I say deport I mean he was forced either to fight for the regime or flee, so you get the general idea. And I have had uncles who were Peshmerga fighting in SK, as well as uncles who are in political groups in relation to the PDK. So what is your point exactly? That your family are more Kurdish than mine? Because last time I checked the Kurds from Ilam are the Kurds who never moved out of Media proper, we didn't migrate out and mix with caucasian tribes(Hurrians) like other Kurds, so spare me on who is more Kurdish.
How about your tribe haven't done shizz.
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Dlovan
Mar 20 13, 3:05
Simko
Mar 20 13, 1:04

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I'm not Persian, but be honest with yourself, can't you hear that the music has some Persian influence? Doesn't fit in with Kurdish music...sorry
Just tell me how, please how is it "persian influenced" exactly? Because your are talknig rubbish just to annoy me for no good reason. If Feyli Kurdish singing is Persian influenced, so is Sorani.
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FeyliKurd
Mar 20 13, 2:43
jjmuneer
Mar 19 13, 3:34

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How do you know he is feyli?
Maybe he is a fayli maybe he isn't, my point wasn't that, but my point was just because he sang in other dialecs, such as sorani somehow that makes it more Kurdish. What fucking bullcrap is that? He has sang in fayli about Khanaqin and Kirmanshan, but you get what I'm trying to say, how you can claim his music is not persian influenced whislt that halparka is?
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Dlovan
Mar 20 13, 3:05
Simko
Mar 20 13, 1:04

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I'm not Persian, but be honest with yourself, can't you hear that the music has some Persian influence? Doesn't fit in with Kurdish music...sorry
So this is all persian influenced?

Music in the background for the beginning intro:






So because Kurmanjis in the north have a different sound of music or style of song than Kurds in the south, it is somehow Turkish influenced? So if your going to insult my family by saying they aren't Kurdish, I'm going to say your family aren't Kurds, because that is what your doing by saying we aren't Kurds.
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Qandil
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End these discussions on who is more Kurdish than others. Also everyone should stop accusing other Kurds of being Persian, Turks or whatever. What will you achieve, but more heated argumentation?

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Because last time I checked the Kurds from Ilam are the Kurds who never moved out of Media proper, we didn't migrate out and mix with caucasian tribes(Hurrians) like other Kurds, so spare me on who is more Kurdish.
How about your tribe haven't done shizz.


I see. Northern and Western Kurds are less Kurdish than other Kurds. Nice!
"Kurdino! Bibin yek; eger hûn nebin yek, hûn ê herin yek bi yek." - Cigerxwîn.
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Xoybun
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jjmuneer
Mar 20 13, 3:36
Dlovan
Mar 19 13, 9:26

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Please tell me what you know about Ilam? And how do we worship Persians? Because I can say the same about southern Kurds 500 years ago or northern Kurds 200 years ago. Whilst Faylis in Ilam always maintained semi-independance for atleast 800 years, known as Lorestan, but nice try.

My father was deported out of the country he was living because he was "iranian", well I say deport I mean he was forced either to fight for the regime or flee, so you get the general idea. And I have had uncles who were Peshmerga fighting in SK, as well as uncles who are in political groups in relation to the PDK. So what is your point exactly? That your family are more Kurdish than mine? Because last time I checked the Kurds from Ilam are the Kurds who never moved out of Media proper, we didn't migrate out and mix with caucasian tribes(Hurrians) like other Kurds, so spare me on who is more Kurdish.
How about your tribe haven't done shizz.
My village was bombarded in 2011 for sheltering PJAK members and giving them supply. Lorestanis won't even say they are Kurdish, just shows how they worship their Persian leaders.
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