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| South Kurdistan oil & gas development | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Nov 17 12, 1:25 (649,191 Views) | |
| jjmuneer | Jun 22 13, 6:42 Post #551 |
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It's about independance |
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| Kurdistano | Jun 22 13, 12:49 Post #552 |
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Azamat heval, instead of repeating the same thing please give us an alternative to Turkey. you still owe us a explanation from the last thread. What is your alternative to Turkey? Staying as part of i-rack? |
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| Azamat | Jun 22 13, 10:48 Post #553 |
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If the KRG, instead of adopting a laissez-faire policy towards IOC activity in SK, had conducted an assessment of how much of the oil we need to export in order to meet our economic demands and in the framework of purchasing military equipment in the future, multiple alternatives would reveal themselves. 1) Exportation by plane. This is an admittedly expensive option, but given an appreciably reduced amount of oil to be exported it would still be viable. Large cargo jets carrying oil barrels would leave from a KRG airport and land in South Cyprus where the oil is transferred onto tankers. The combination of air transportation and reduced exports would indeed cut our revenues drastically, but the way things are going right now the KRG will have a surplus of revenue that cannot be put to practical use and which is bound to be wasted on capitalist nonsense like malls, hotels, cinemas, etcetera. 2) An agreement between the PYD and the KRG to expand WK forces towards a small strip of the Mediterranean coast. Other users have argued that 'this is not on their agenda' or that 'this is not going happen', but since we are speaking of hypothetical scenarios that are within the confines of realistic possibilities here these arguments have no value. Territorial access from SK to the Mediterranean coast with Kurdish control over the area would place no limitations on how much oil we can export, no taxations imposed on us by foreign powers, and no geopolitical leverage over us handed to nations through which they can and will manipulate or coerce us. There is another measure for us to take too, which is not so much an 'alternative' and which I know most of you will ridicule me for but not with reason. It is held that we need to export oil in order to build up capital with which to establish industries, and to purchase military equipment to defend SK and pursue our interests in the other parts of Kurdistan. And I'm saying that the former reason could be partially eliminated if we abandon the trappings of a market economy and turn towards a centrally planned economy. Every major industry under a market economy needs financial capital and investment in order to be established, whereas under an economy where allocation and production is not determined by market forces and is directly planned by a central (state) administration instead, that would not be necessitated. The USSR under Stalin virtually industrialized in just 10 years without any market transactions taking place, in a line of many other examples of Communist states having underwent this procedure, and even some capitalist nations like South Korea and Nazi Germany did as well. We could remove any prospective industries we want to develop from the regional and world market, and develop them through direct state planning with overseas technical aid instead. I believe that this would cut the amount oil we are required to export by at least a quarter of what will be exported in the future. Edited by Azamat, Jun 22 13, 11:11.
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| jjmuneer | Jun 22 13, 10:51 Post #554 |
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Azamat Your right, your just right.Restricting oil supply whilst exporting it will enable us to fund for the oil exports through air transportation. As restrictions of the supply of oil will push up it's price, at the same time it would have limited effects on the reduction of demand for oil. |
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| Kurdistano | Jun 23 13, 12:33 Post #555 |
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but using Cargos to transport the oil through someone else country is not going to make as less dependent. Its actually one and the same as a pipeline just slower. This is not an alternative to our problem.
Heval I asked for a currently possible alternative. All of us want access to the sea. There is no need for an agreement between PYD and KRG since it is a well known fact that this is wanted by both sides. Currently there is no access through Western Kurdistan. So this is not an alternative too.
Heval I know your admiration of the Communistic system and I can only say, only a person who had zero experience with a communistic system and never had to suffer under a totalitarian state can be so much into a system. You simply can't survive in the 21. century without global marketing. And you need something to trade with and this is oil in our case. Stalin nationalized everything and at the end of the day again the small man was the one who had to hunger. You can't purchase weapons without having access to the sea or the permission of at least one of your neighbors to transport it through their state.
Heval I asked you this once. If you could show me just 2 countries in the 21. century using this old state running politics with success I will agree with you. |
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| jjmuneer | Jun 23 13, 12:35 Post #556 |
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^Strawman argument. |
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| Kurdistano | Jun 23 13, 12:38 Post #557 |
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JJ instead of simply disliking a huge comment and calling it strawman argument try to argue against. And I mean real arguments. The dislike button seems to have become your favorite. Those are no strawman arguments, Using Cargos needs approve of your neighbors, access to the sea is currently not an alternative. Without global trading we will become North Korea Isolation from the world market is not an alternative. |
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| jjmuneer | Jun 23 13, 12:47 Post #558 |
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"I didn't live under the cruel state of Communism". It is. And your accusing me of mis-using dislike button, when your friend WW2boy dislikes comments for no reasons. What are you talking about another strawman.
See show me actual empircal evidence, numbers and statistics. |
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| Azamat | Jun 23 13, 1:23 Post #559 |
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Article 5 of the Chicago Convention on International Aviation states that unscheduled non-military flights have the right to fly over a UN-state's territory without obtaining prior permission from that state. The KRG would simply have to perform unscheduled flights at irregular intervals over Syrian or Syrian-Turkish border territory, which has sections that are not even covered by traffic control anyway. Well, do we really need a 'currently possible' alternative? You make it sound as if there is time pressure on us to establish exportations, succeeded by the secession of SK from i-rack. There is no such hurry and we can take everything one step at a time. An 'agreement' was rather bad wording on my part, what I referred to was a major military offensive towards the Mediterranean coast and the logistical-material preparations that would have to be taken prior to it, with the KRG's "illegal" cooperation. In order to do this, the KRG and the PYD would have to shove their silly political divides aside. South Kurdistan's soil contains iron ore, coal, and limestone. The resources are there, and no importation of these resources is required. What we would need is overseas technical aid and this is achieved through the revenue regenerated by a reduced amount of oil export. Turkey would never grant us permission to import weapons through their territory unless all elements working in Kurdish interests have been stripped from their positions in SK and our little country has become the puppet state of the Turkish Republic. If we gain no access to the Mediterranean coast, then there will be no weapons for us to import. North Korea and Cuba are actually relatively developed in their rated manufacturing capacity. The factors responsible for the fact that they are running at low output have very little do with either the inefficiencies of the planning system itself or the fact that their economies are closed to the global market - in North Korea for instance a lot of industrial and agricultural equipment was destroyed in the 90s floodings and they have not yet had the opportunity to repair or reconstruct the equipment. In either way this comparison is flawed because I am not suggesting that we "close ourselves off" like these two countries have at all, merely that we remove some key industries from the market in order for us to start developing them without the use of financial investment and capital. I am referring to iron and coal mining, steel production, electricity generation and small arms/ammunition production primarily. The UK and many other capitalist countries did this before the 90s and the advent of neoliberalism. The burden is on you to do the math, then. Using turboprop jets and taking on little fuel for every flight to South Cyprus(as the controversial carrier RyanAir does) I really doubt that the use of fuel would transcend that which is being transported. Edited by Azamat, Jun 23 13, 2:04.
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| jjmuneer | Jun 23 13, 1:43 Post #560 |
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Azamat once again you disproved all these capitalists who defend capitalism so strongly without even understanding or ever sutdying Capitalism in detail. It seems most knowledge on economics on this forum is as basic as supply and demand. Good job Azamat. |
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| jjmuneer | Jun 23 13, 2:21 Post #561 |
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Do you know anything of basic economics? The cost of fuel to transport a cargo filled with crude oil does not outweight the profit made from the oil revenue that is being transported. If you restrict supply, price will go up, simple fact, especially with an inelastic good such as oil. OPEC do it all the time. |
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| Azamat | Jun 23 13, 2:33 Post #562 |
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And what I don't know is why everyone believes that we can export our oil via Turkey without becoming severely disadvantaged on geopolitical grounds and having our main source of income and therefore our economy be brought at the disposition of a state that is hostile to Kurdish interests, and how we can sustain the necessary relations with that state without having our government, our military and our society being increasingly manipulated and intruded upon by the Turks, a process that is already happening on a full scale in SK. I must have asked this a thousand times before and nobody has answered me this question. Why does Azerbaijan not export its oil through Armenia? It's less mileage than through the current corridor in Georgia, so why didn't they do it? In approaching the Turks for economic ties we have effectively ditched the future independence of NK and the freedom to pursue Kurdish interests by the KRG. Oh, and now the youth of SK is glued to the television watching Turkish soaps and programs as well, to top it all off, besides of course the Turkish military personnel stationed on KRG territory. I truly ought to be satisfied with the KRG's policies towards Turkey indeed. Already answered in response to Kurdistano. Edited by Azamat, Jun 23 13, 2:52.
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| the SUN child | Jun 23 13, 2:42 Post #563 |
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ZAGROS-ARYAN
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We have to find out the way how to ship our oil to Israel! Maybe via i-rack, through Jordan into Israel? |
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| jjmuneer | Jun 23 13, 2:44 Post #564 |
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Kikan why are you disliking my comment? Based on what, the economics? |
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| Kikan_Kurd | Jun 23 13, 2:47 Post #565 |
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Jj why can't you ever have a discussion without insulting someone? I know more about economics than what you will ever be able to comprehend, because you are too stubborn to learn anything. Shipping crude oil via aircraft is the stupidest thing I ever heard! |
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"for blood never sleeps" | |
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| jjmuneer | Jun 23 13, 2:52 Post #566 |
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Did I insult anyone here? What qualifications do you have in Economics exaxtly to render you more qualified than me? And how is it the "stupidest thing you've ever heard"? |
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| Azamat | Jun 23 13, 2:57 Post #567 |
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For hypocritically insulting my intelligence as you accuse Angrals of doing towards you, and your evaluation of the proposal as "absurd", transporting crude oil by plane is actually a reality on a small scale: http://www.cbc.ca/thisisthat/blog/2012/12/05/alberta-energy-company-to-use-airplanes-instead-of-pipeline-to-transport-oil/ Edited by Azamat, Jun 23 13, 3:01.
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| the SUN child | Jun 23 13, 3:02 Post #568 |
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ZAGROS-ARYAN
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This is actually what Jews and Americans want. This was their initial strategy. At this moment Jordan (king of Jordan) is an allied country. That why USA is against dividing i-rack into 3 parts. And that's why USA and Israel are against North-Kurdish pipeline through Northern Kurdistan into West Anatolia. Edited by the SUN child, Jun 23 13, 3:06.
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| jjmuneer | Jun 23 13, 3:11 Post #569 |
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So you didn't answer my question, typical. So you don't have any qualifications in economics? And how did I insult your intellgience? I merely stated majority of people on this board don't have any form of qualification in Economics, which is not a insult or meant to be slander but a fact. |
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| jjmuneer | Jun 23 13, 4:04 Post #570 |
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But you said you were more qualified than me and know Economics that "I cannot comprehend". So please just tell me economics that will baffle me. And I'm far more educated than you'll ever be. Edited by jjmuneer, Jun 23 13, 4:04.
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| jjmuneer | Jun 23 13, 4:43 Post #571 |
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Are you just trolling? Your the one who stated you know "Economics I cannot comprehend". I replied then show me an example. If that is stubborn I don't know what isn't stubborn to you. |
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| jjmuneer | Jun 23 13, 5:15 Post #572 |
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You really think I was arguing with you because of that? Ok tell me what is the problem with shipping crude oil using planes? Cost? I already addressed that, simply restrict supply to artificially put up prices. |
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| jjmuneer | Jun 23 13, 5:40 Post #573 |
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Lol what do you think OPEC is doing now? And what is America along with the other major oil importers are doing? Demanding the same, because they have no where else to go. Nigeria? They are in political turmoil. Iran? Well they want to bomb Israel. Oil isn't a normal commodity, it is a neccassity, so demand for it will not go down. And actually by international law OPEC's actions are illegal because it is collusive in its nature. However no one condems them, because they make the oil companies quite wealthy. |
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| Worldwar2boy | Jun 23 13, 5:50 Post #574 |
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lolz Exporting oil by cargo planes? JJ you better study things before you talk. |
| biji kurd u kurdistan !! | |
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| Azamat | Jun 23 13, 5:53 Post #575 |
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Again, as I said, the costs of fuel could be minimized and the alternative rendered feasible by using turboprop rather than jet planes and taking on as little fuel for each flight as possible(which would probably be well below legal limits, but so be it, since the flights are not going to be officially scheduled anyway). Besides, the flight from SK to South Cyprus is not a long one anyway. Edited by Azamat, Jun 23 13, 5:56.
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Your right, your just right.


1:46 AM Jul 12