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South Kurdistan oil & gas development
Topic Started: Nov 17 12, 1:25 (649,189 Views)
Azamat
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Worldwar2boy
Jun 24 13, 5:31
Azamat
Jun 24 13, 5:02
Believing that the USA would side with us rather than Turkey in the event of conflict borders on delusion. We might have oil, but so does Turkey, and that is just one resource in an astronomical array of natural resources that Turkey possesses(of which many in NK) whereas we do not, making Turkey a far better candidate for US investment than does Kurdistan.

But let's look at the premise first. Do we really want development of industries to be the work of the USA(or any foreign power) and to open our resources up to the world market as a default position? Why not focus intensively on educating the most intelligent minds amongst our population in technical fields for a sustained period(like 10-15 years) so we can develop the industries by ourselves later on?

Also, why should I care about any of Ashti Hawrami's work in my assessment of the oil question when I strongly disagree with the KRG's policies on oil and the economy in general? Contributions to Kurdish technical knowledge and skills on his part are something he deserves valuation and respect for, of course, but that does not render his political positions and assumptions pertinent to the energy sector any more valid than are mine.
LOL

Turkey has oil? Whaha, they do, but it is nothing compared to SK. Turkey's oil reserve is 262 million barrels. That's not even 0.5% of SK's oil lol.


False, Turkey has many unproven reserves and unexplored areas with a high potentiality for containing oil.

I would also like to take this opportunity to state that I am very irritated by your, WW2boy, and others' vested trust in the West(and more specifically the USA) as a power to rely on, to open our country up to and allow them full responsibility for developing our livelihoods, and the admiration of the West as an economical, social and political role-model to base ourselves on, and to emulate. In my estimation the West is an example of what kind of society we must not become.
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Come with a proposal genius, I am sure what you say is better for Kurdistan than what KRG politcians & ministers (who probably have underwear older than you are) with decades of experience say.
The KRG's politicians and ministers are capitalists and believers in the religion of the free market. Mark my words that Barzani will turn into the next Pinochet when the patriots of Kurdistan rise up, to flush all the capitalist filth our leaders have left behind away.
Edited by Azamat, Jun 24 13, 5:49.
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Worldwar2boy
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Azamat
Jun 24 13, 5:44
Worldwar2boy
Jun 24 13, 5:31

Quoting limited to 2 levels deep
False, Turkey has many unproven reserves and unexplored areas with a high potentiality for containing oil.

I would also like to take this opportunity to state that I am very irritated by your, WW2boy, and others' vested trust in the West(and more specifically the USA) as a power to rely on, to open our country up to and allow them full responsibility for developing our livelihoods, and the admiration of the West as an economical, social and political role-model to base ourselves on, and to emulate. In my estimation the West is an example of what kind of society we must not become.
Quote:
 
Come with a proposal genius, I am sure what you say is better for Kurdistan than what KRG politcians & ministers (who probably have underwear older than you are) with decades of experience say.
The KRG's politicians and ministers are capitalists and believers in the religion of the free market. Mark my words that Barzani will turn into the next Pinochet when the patriots of Kurdistan rise up, to flush all the capitalist filth our leaders have left behind away.
That won't happen.
And shut your mouth, you're insulting Kurdish patriots. People like Barzani and other Peshmerga fought for the South-Kurdistan that we have today.

My father lost 2 of his brothers, he was tortured, wounded, left his family to fight for Kurdistan and you're now claiming that he is a filthy capitalist?
My father is not pro-communism like you are. He wants Kurdistan to modernize, Kurdistan to become wealthy, just like most Kurds. Most Kurds don't want communism, but socialism.
And KRG is socialist, but there are also capitalist characteristics. And there is nothing wrong with that. If you are pro-freedom, you have to be pro-free market. Not a market in which the government controls everything you do because that is what communism is. What have you done to think you're allowed to insult my father and thousands of other Peshmerga? You're implying that they are not ''real Kurdish patriots''. Than who is? You?! WHAHAHA.

And please don't make things up, like saying that I want SK/KRG to become exactly like the West or the USA. You clearly haven't read all my posts, I have critiziced the USA many times.
Edited by Worldwar2boy, Jun 24 13, 6:16.
biji kurd u kurdistan !!
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Halo
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jjmuneer
Jun 24 13, 2:55
Simko
Jun 24 13, 2:45

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Companies don't buy oil, they buy oil share.
an example of what I mean: http://www.rebco.info/eng/buyer.html

I belive this was the case when KRG started exporting it's oil through turkey but I can't remember exactly where I read it.

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Alasha: Asking and discussing is not forbidden, rather prohibited on this forum
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ALAN
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jjmuneer
Jun 24 13, 4:38
A L A N
Jun 24 13, 4:27
You guys are arguing this whole oil export with a person like Ashti Hawrami who has spent his entire life in oil?

KRG is building pipeline for its oil if one day turkey becomes hostile towards KRG (Exxon, Chevron and Total) then I'm sure US will think of a way to get that force offline via one of its methods in turkey let it be the Kemalists for eg. IF and when that happens KRG could use Azamat's costly suggestion to export it's oil via air but it will cost triple the running cost of exporting via pipelines and it will be very small quantities.
Alan so your putting your trust in the USA again? Like in 1991? What if(a big if) you are right and the USA do side with us over Turkey. It will still make us dependant upon the west.
In 1991 there was no US consulate in SK we didn't have 45 billion barrels of oil discovered and 100 trillion cbf of gas wasn't found either, nor did we have Exxon and Chevron in SK. You guys are arguing something that is done and dusted try to argue something like another route for SK if bordering countries that those IOCs would deal with right now it's a no no for them. US does not like us but they sure will make sure the oil in SK gets to the intl markets, and stupid Kemalists have no support from west no more so I don't see where you and Azamat's worry coming from? That we are watching Turkish shows which ARE translated verbally into Kurdish? Well before we use to have iracki TV shows in ARABIC!!! This is a weak argument to use! As SK is very patriot and you can see their effort has paid off compared to other parts of greater Kurdistan! Actually at least the north part of EK stood up and got itself a republic even thou it was short but it showed their kurdish patriosm!
Russian Girenak Joseph, who visited Kirkuk in Kurdistan as a part of his tour throu the 1870 - 1873 AD, who published the results of his trip & his studies later in 1879, in the 4th volume in the Bulletin of the Caucasus department of the Royal Geographical Russian Society estimated Kirkuk's population as many as 12-50,000 people, & he emphasized that except 40 Christian families, the rest of the population were Kurds. As for The Turkmen & Arabs, they have not been already existed at the time.
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Worldwar2boy
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A L A N
Jun 24 13, 12:00
jjmuneer
Jun 24 13, 4:38

Quoting limited to 2 levels deep
In 1991 there was no US consulate in SK we didn't have 45 billion barrels of oil discovered and 100 trillion cbf of gas wasn't found either, nor did we have Exxon and Chevron in SK. You guys are arguing something that is done and dusted try to argue something like another route for SK if bordering countries that those IOCs would deal with right now it's a no no for them. US does not like us but they sure will make sure the oil in SK gets to the intl markets, and stupid Kemalists have no support from west no more so I don't see where you and Azamat's worry coming from? That we are watching Turkish shows which ARE translated verbally into Kurdish? Well before we use to have iracki TV shows in ARABIC!!! This is a weak argument to use! As SK is very patriot and you can see their effort has paid off compared to other parts at least the north part of EK stood up and got itself a republic even thou it was short but it showed their kurdish patrioism.
Exactly they are critizing SK for trying to build up a nation, but SK has done the most of all 4 parts when it comes to revolts and Kurdish patriotism.
There is a reason Kurds from SK were targetted, massacred and they committed genocide on us.

The Barzani family fought wars against occupation in the 1940's, decades before the PKK was even established. You can criticize them, but you're in no place to insult them or say ''they are capitalist filth that need to by killed''. They were in the mountains fighting Arabs and Persians long before you was even born.

You're talking about how bad capitalism is. I am sure you eat meat every day, take a shower every day, watch tv, wear nice clothes, the latest electronics and access to the internet? All of this was not possible without capitalism.

Communism was used in the Soviet-Union, they're still not recovered. Russia is extremely poor while they have a lot of resources. Look at China. Look at North-Korea.
All isolated, in hunger, etc.

Communism looks nice on paper, but it won't work in reality. A small group of people will take and hold the power.
biji kurd u kurdistan !!
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jjmuneer
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Worldwar2boy
Jun 24 13, 5:33
jjmuneer
Jun 24 13, 4:38

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Dude make up your mind. First you say US won't choose us over Turkey, than when US might choose us over Turkey, we shouldn't trust them anyway because that would make us dependant on the West? What is it that you want?!?

Come with a proposal genius, I am sure what you say is better for Kurdistan than what KRG politcians & ministers (who probably have underwear older than you are) with decades of experience say.
Do you understand the definition of 'hypothetical example'? Let me provide a dictionary definition for you
Quote:
 
A hypothetical circumstance, condition, scenario, or situation

I was merely using that as an example to say what if the USA backed us over Turkey, which is un-likely considering the partnership the USA and the West in general has built up with Turkey.

Sarcasm is the lowest form of humour for the lowest form of people. :) Just so you know the KRG doesn't have decades of experience, KRG has only existed for about 2 decades. And only in the mid-last decade been exporting oil at such a mass-scale.

The only reason you like America is because you visited America once, now you feel some kinship towards it. If that was the case I must fall in love with Britain or UAE or Iran, right? Trust me America doesn't care about you and never will.
Edited by jjmuneer, Jun 24 13, 7:31.
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jjmuneer
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If your going to use that argument that "Barzanis fought against Arabs and Persian before I was born." Then I could use the same argument for Faylis, we fought against the entire Ottoman empire whilst maintaing independance from Persia for over 800 years, long before you or any Barzani was born now. And if it wasn't for the defence of Luristan I can assure you there would be alot more Kurds speaking Turkish as a second language.
(By the way I'm not saying Faylis are better than any other Kurd, but I'm just using this point as a counter-argument to yours)

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You're talking about how bad capitalism is. I am sure you eat meat every day, take a shower every day, watch tv, wear nice clothes, the latest electronics and access to the internet? All of this was not possible without capitalism.

That has nothing to do with capitalism. In a Communist society all those can be delivered. And tell me your ancestors also "ate meat, and wore nice clothes". But in all honesty I think the arrival of new technology has actually destroyed alot of human interaction in society causing multplie personality dsyfunctionalities.

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Communism was used in the Soviet-Union, they're still not recovered. Russia is extremely poor while they have a lot of resources. Look at China. Look at North-Korea.
All isolated, in hunger, etc.

Actually your wrong, Russia not utilizing their resources ahs nothing to do with communism, but rather the heavy bureacy in Russia due to its corrupt democratic system.

Quote:
 
Communism looks nice on paper, but it won't work in reality. A small group of people will take and hold the power.

Isn't this the same with democracy or Capitalism? Major Monopolies and Oligopolies in industries hold most of the buying power, so odinary folk cannot enter the market due to these high barriers to entry.
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ALAN
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jj what about the south region of EK (Ilam, Kermashan, Lorestan) has never stood against iranian facisim! why?, I have heard Kermashan has oil but Kermashanis and feylis in general do nothing to get some benefits from their own oil which is been stolen by Persian and Azaris!, jj you should also more often worry about those areas in EK by creating more awareness the iranian defense forum is a good place to start. dont worry about KRG too much as KRG is set for ever, trust me your worries are too much and making it sound bigger than it is.
Heval How come i never hear you complain about Persianizing Kermashan which is a feyli province? Do you see the Persians as brothers of Kurds!? I always hear you swear at turks which is fine but NOTHING towards Persians?!? I wish u could focus your struggle on Kermashan persianizing, its oil stealing by persia/Azeri fags etc.. rather than KRG oil policies.
Russian Girenak Joseph, who visited Kirkuk in Kurdistan as a part of his tour throu the 1870 - 1873 AD, who published the results of his trip & his studies later in 1879, in the 4th volume in the Bulletin of the Caucasus department of the Royal Geographical Russian Society estimated Kirkuk's population as many as 12-50,000 people, & he emphasized that except 40 Christian families, the rest of the population were Kurds. As for The Turkmen & Arabs, they have not been already existed at the time.
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jjmuneer
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A L A N
Jun 24 13, 8:43
jj what about the south region of EK (Ilam, Kermashan, Lorestan) has never stood against iranian facisim! why?, I have heard Kermashan has oil but Kermashanis and feylis in general do nothing to get some benefits from their own oil which is been stolen by Persian and Azaris!, jj you should also more often worry about those areas in EK by creating more awareness the iranian defense forum is a good place to start. dont worry about KRG too much as KRG is set for ever, trust me your worries are too much and making it sound bigger than it is.
How come i never hear you complain about Persianizing Kermashan which is a feyli province? Do you see the Persians as brothers of Kurds!? I always hear you swear at turks which is fine but NOTHING towards Persians?!? I wish u could focus your struggle on Kermashan persianizing, oil stealing etc.. rather than KRG oil policies.
So you will swear on your children's life that I have never complained on Persianization of Kirmanshan or Lorestan? Don't troll me heval you know I complain more than most people on this board. People on this board just hate the Islamic republic, it's not the islamic republic that is the problem, it is all Iranian governments that is. The Shah was worst than the islamic republic, because atleast with the islamic republic they tell you when they are going to kill you.

And what are you talking about heval? In what sense? I told you most Feylis in Ilam and Lorestan aren't even in education, majority of educated feylis were located in Khanaqin, Baghdad and Europe. We were all semi-nomadic Herdsmen during the Mahabad uprising. And no Feyli supported the Iranian regime, because it doesn't make sense. Why would we support the Shah when he killed and removed our last Walis or Tribal King of Lorestan? The 1931/32 Land reforms in Iran and i-rack forced Feylis to immigrant or settle down, we were being attacked not just politically but culturally. The Malek Shahis are evidence of this imperialism that occurred against us. Malek Shahis actually including the Mandalinis aswell are orginally from west Ilam, but due to this division some of the tribesmen were forced to migrate into Ottoman i-rack for citizenship.

I already told you Alan Kirmanshan is persianized and Ilam isn't. Kirmanshan has a presence of Iranian revoultionary gaurds and iranian political insistutions and majority of Kirmanshanis aren't even Faylis lol. They are Khelurris who you could call more Sorani than feyli considering their dialect is basically sorani with a more feyli accent in my opinion. Not that I'm saying I don't care, but I a single person cannot do much, just as you a single person cannot defend Kerkûk or defend it's rights alone.
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ALAN
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oh i didnt say you havent complained but you SHOULD complain more about that rather than worrying about KRG oil policy which seems totally ok to me. you are also taking Kermashan Persianizing for granted kaka jj gyan, bcos if Kermashan is persianized, Ilam hope to connect to a greater Kurdistan will be lost for good.
Russian Girenak Joseph, who visited Kirkuk in Kurdistan as a part of his tour throu the 1870 - 1873 AD, who published the results of his trip & his studies later in 1879, in the 4th volume in the Bulletin of the Caucasus department of the Royal Geographical Russian Society estimated Kirkuk's population as many as 12-50,000 people, & he emphasized that except 40 Christian families, the rest of the population were Kurds. As for The Turkmen & Arabs, they have not been already existed at the time.
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jjmuneer
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A L A N
Jun 24 13, 10:33
oh i didnt say you havent complained but you SHOULD complain more about that rather than worrying about KRG oil policy which seems totally ok to me. you are also taking Kermashan Persianizing for granted kaka jj gyan, bcos if Kermashan is persianized, Ilam hope to connect to a greater Kurdistan will be lost for good.
Well we need more support from KDPI and PJAK.
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ALAN
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Turkey supports a rise in oil and natural gas production in south Kurdistan

Created on 24/6/2013. 10:24

Turkey supports a rise in oil and natural gas production in the Kurdistan Regional Government (KRG), but the decision should be taken by “all Iraqi people,” Turkish Energy Minister Taner Yıldız has said during his meeting with KRG President Masoud Barzani in Russia.

“We, as Turkey, are absolutely supporting the increase in natural gas and oil production in KRG. However, production increases in this region should not only be within the framework of KRG's administration decisions.

The administration and all Iraqi people should decide together,” Yıldız said in his talks with Barzani and Ashti Hawrami, the KRG’s minister of natural resources, at the St. Petersburg International Economic Forum on June 20.

He stressed that Turkey would be ready to contribute as soon as the central government in Baghdad and the autonomous administration in Arbil find a common formula.

“We underlined that public or private companies’ agreements, under the condition of being subject to private law, are important not only for the KRG” Yıldız said after the meeting. Baghdad recently announced that it aims to ramp up oil production by nearly 45 percent by the end of 2014, without any input from the KRG.

The dispute between Baghdad and Arbil is part of wider disagreements over who controls the world’s fifth-largest oil reserves.

Source
Peyamner
Russian Girenak Joseph, who visited Kirkuk in Kurdistan as a part of his tour throu the 1870 - 1873 AD, who published the results of his trip & his studies later in 1879, in the 4th volume in the Bulletin of the Caucasus department of the Royal Geographical Russian Society estimated Kirkuk's population as many as 12-50,000 people, & he emphasized that except 40 Christian families, the rest of the population were Kurds. As for The Turkmen & Arabs, they have not been already existed at the time.
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Halo
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By WW2boy SK has done the most of all 4 parts when it comes to revolts and Kurdish patriotism.
There is a reason Kurds from SK were targetted, massacred and they committed genocide on us.


Are you for real? This isn't the first time you've become all this SK nationalist, I remember very well back on RBK where you said "we southern kurds don't owe anything to other kurds because they never helped us" somewhere in the peshmerga topic.

Do you have any idea of how WRONG you are and how BAD it is to say something like that? I'm not gonna turn this into a debate because it's very unhealthy for us kurds. But I tell you this, you would be crushed. I advice to never say such a thing again.
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Alasha: Asking and discussing is not forbidden, rather prohibited on this forum
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jjmuneer
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Simko
Jun 24 13, 11:12
By WW2boy SK has done the most of all 4 parts when it comes to revolts and Kurdish patriotism.
There is a reason Kurds from SK were targetted, massacred and they committed genocide on us.


Are you for real? This isn't the first time you've become all this SK nationalist, I remember very well back on RBK where you said "we southern kurds don't owe anything to other kurds because they never helped us" somewhere in the peshmerga topic.

Do you have any idea of how WRONG you are and how BAD it is to say something like that? I'm not gonna turn this into a debate because it's very unhealthy for us kurds. But I tell you this, you would be crushed.
I've already disproved this claim he made with the example of Luristan defending the Kurds from Ottoman influence.
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Azamat
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Worldwar2boy
 
That won't happen.
If the KRG will not halt surrendering its resources likes whores to the West whilst dragging in Turkish companies at a time when unemployment rates in SK are soaring high, rest assured that it will.
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And shut your mouth, you're insulting Kurdish patriots.
I insulted Kurdish leaders, and I have no intention of taking my insults back. They deserve it for being incompetent and compliant.
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My father is not pro-communism like you are. He wants Kurdistan to modernize, Kurdistan to become wealthy,
If the KRG's policies regarding the SK economy have been conductive to this 'modernization' and 'wealthiness' you are referring to, then why are there after 10 years still no iron and coal mines? Why are there no blast furnaces and other steelworks in operation? That is where real wealth is forged, WW2boy, not in the phantom "cash" wealth that you are so adament on obtaining, which has so far been spent on all kinds of superficial frothing rubbish, like malls, hotels, and fancy towers. Today, SK is about as capable of producing its own standard of living as it was 10 years ago.

And in contrast to the free-market approach that you hold in such esteem as the way to modernize Kurdistan, the 10-year industrialization program in the USSR under Stalin was more fruitful than anything that has been achieved in the KRG, in almost every respect. And they utilized nationalization and central economic planning rather than having to wait for imaginary capital do build up with which to 'invest' later on, capital which if not under the government control that you and other Barzani-loyalists fear so much, will most likely not be spent on useful things anyway, as the fancy skyline of Hewlêr reveals.
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just like most Kurds. Most Kurds don't want communism
Don't go lecturing me around on what the Kurds do and do not want, you irritating little git. I know the facts well enough, which reveal that the preponderance of Kurdish parties and organizations in NK and EK that gained popularity have been of a Marxist-Leninist orientation, and I also know that the privatization of the i-racki and SK economies after the US-invasion occurred entirely without the consent of the people and was purely an American dictate.
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If you are pro-freedom, you have to be pro-free market.
The philosophical concept of "free will" is bogus and has no correspondence to the deterministic nature of the real world, and the free market merely decentralizes the dictatorial dialectic between producers and consumers into small, competing rackets that operate inefficiently, generate waste and do nothing that is remotely in the interests of the public rather than making a profit. Your characterization of the market economy as providing freedom contrasted against the dictatorship of communism is a false dichotomy.
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What have you done to think you're allowed to insult my father and thousands of other Peshmerga? You're implying that they are not ''real Kurdish patriots''.
I don't understand why you are bringing up your father and the Peshmerga all the time. They probably never gave a shizz about either your pathetic free market ideology or communism when they were fighting against the oppressors. Really, I have no idea why you are bringing them up, it must be a manifestation of your mental inability to formulate coherent and proper arguments.
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And please don't make things up, like saying that I want SK/KRG to become exactly like the West or the USA. You clearly haven't read all my posts, I have critiziced the USA many times.
You want SK to have a market economy and to open its natural resources up the world market a la laissez-faire. This position is compliant with Western interests in the Middle-East, and that tells us more than enough about your stance towards the West.
Alan
 
In 1991 there was no US consulate in SK we didn't have 45 billion barrels of oil discovered and 100 trillion cbf of gas wasn't found either, nor did we have Exxon and Chevron in SK.
Well, maybe some of us do not want a US consulate in SK, 45 billion barrels of oil and 100 cbf of gas to be discovered, and Exxon and Chevron robbing our country of the stuff that will provide us our livelihoods in the future, in the first place?
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You guys are arguing something that is done and dusted
I absolutely see no reason why this statement can be considered an 'argument' in any conceivable way. I am sorry but this must be the most stupid logic I have yet encountered in this debate. The assimiliation of groups of Kurds in Turkey is "done and dusted" too, does that mean we should make no efforts to reverse or halt the process?

If the KRG makes no efforts to render available better alternatives for exporting oil, like approaching the PYD(which they hate) to make them do a military offensive towards the Mediterranean coast, and helping them out with the logistical and material preparations for that operation, the more competent patriots amongst us will just blow up the pipeline of shame if we have to, like the PKK has been doing in several campaigns over the years.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/07/04/us-iraq-oil-pipeline-idUSTRE6630OL20100704
http://www.ekurd.net/mismas/articles/misc2012/4/turkey3872.htm
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US does not like us but they sure will make sure the oil in SK gets to the intl markets, and stupid Kemalists have no support from west no more so I don't see where you and Azamat's worry coming from?
Turkey is the strongest power in the Western sphere of influence in the Middle-East, and its status as a strong power under that sphere of influence is crucial to the West's interests against the Russian-Iranian sphere of influence that seems to be spreading. In this political arena, the Kurds represent an annoying obstruction responsible for nothing but war, instability and "terrorism"(we are known in the West as terrorists) in the region. No foreign power will side with us in the event of conflict - like I said, believing that they will borders on delusion.
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That we are watching Turkish shows which ARE translated verbally into Kurdish? Well before we use to have iracki TV shows in ARABIC!!! This is a weak argument to use!
I can't believe you have just defended the propagation of Turkish culture in Kurdish society. I just can't believe it. I have no words to describe my disappointment in this, when we in the North have for 90 years resisted all efforts to Turkify us, and impose the culture of the Turks on us.
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As SK is very patriot and you can see their effort has paid off compared to other parts of greater Kurdistan!
SK is liberated despite of the KDP and the PUK, with their retarded civil war and the collaboration with Saddam and Turkey, not because of them.
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Actually at least the north part of EK stood up and got itself a republic even thou it was short but it showed their kurdish patriosm!
And so did NK, where we too established a Republic that we defended to the last man and where we attempted 5 bloody rebellions in spite of repeated massacres, crimes and continuous efforts at assimilation and erasion attempted against us.

Your and WW2boy's denigrating insinuations towards Northern Kurds are some of the most repudent things I have read so far. Sorry, but I will take a break from this board for a while. Bye.
Edited by Azamat, Jun 25 13, 12:25.
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Worldwar2boy
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Simko
Jun 24 13, 11:12
By WW2boy SK has done the most of all 4 parts when it comes to revolts and Kurdish patriotism.
There is a reason Kurds from SK were targetted, massacred and they committed genocide on us.


Are you for real? This isn't the first time you've become all this SK nationalist, I remember very well back on RBK where you said "we southern kurds don't owe anything to other kurds because they never helped us" somewhere in the peshmerga topic.

Do you have any idea of how WRONG you are and how BAD it is to say something like that? I'm not gonna turn this into a debate because it's very unhealthy for us kurds. But I tell you this, you would be crushed. I advice to never say such a thing again.
It's the truth. It's not to make Kurds from other parts look bad, definitely not. But you can't say all Kurds have done equally. That's an insult to Halabja and Anfal victims.
SK was always a huge battleground. I am not saying other Kurds did nothing, I am just saying SK did most of the 4 parts. Just facts.
biji kurd u kurdistan !!
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Worldwar2boy
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Azamat
Jun 24 13, 11:43
Worldwar2boy
 
That won't happen.
If the KRG will not halt surrendering its resources likes whores to the West whilst dragging in Turkish companies at a time when unemployment rates in SK are soaring high, rest assured that it will.
Quote:
 
And shut your mouth, you're insulting Kurdish patriots.
I insulted Kurdish leaders, and I have no intention of taking my insults back. They deserve it for being incompetent and compliant.
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My father is not pro-communism like you are. He wants Kurdistan to modernize, Kurdistan to become wealthy,
If the KRG's policies regarding the SK economy have been conductive to this 'modernization' and 'wealthiness' you are referring to, then why are there after 10 years still no iron and coal mines? Why are there no blast furnaces and other steelworks in operation? That is where real wealth is forged, WW2boy, not in the phantom "cash" wealth that you are so adament on obtaining, which have so far been spent on all kinds of superficial frothing rubbish, like malls, hotels, and fancy towers. Today, SK is about as capable of producing its own standard of living as it was 10 years ago.

And in contrast to the free-market approach that you hold in such esteem as the way to modernize Kurdistan, the 10-year industrialization program in the USSR under Stalin was more fruitful than anything that has been achieved in the KRG, in almost every respect. And they utilized nationalization and central economic planning rather than having to wait for imaginary capital do build up with which to 'invest' later on, capital which if not under the government control that you and other Barzani-loyalists fear so much, will most likely not be spent on useful things anyway, as the fancy skyline of Hewlêr reveals.
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just like most Kurds. Most Kurds don't want communism
Don't go lecturing me around on what the Kurds do and do not want, you irritating little git. I know the facts well enough, which reveal that the preponderance of Kurdish parties and organizations in NK and EK that gained popularity have been of a Marxist-Leninist orientation, and I also know that the privatization of the i-racki and SK economies after the US-invasion occurred entirely without the conscent of the people and was purely an American dictate.
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If you are pro-freedom, you have to be pro-free market.
The philosophical concept of "free will" is bogus and has no correspondance to the deterministic nature of the real world, and the free market merely decentralizes the dictatorial dialectic between producers and consumers into small, competing rackets that operate inefficiently, generate waste and do nothing that is remotely in the interests of the public rather than making a profit.
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What have you done to think you're allowed to insult my father and thousands of other Peshmerga? You're implying that they are not ''real Kurdish patriots''.
I don't understand why you are bringing up your father and the Peshmerga all the time. They probably never gave a shizz about either your pathetic free market ideology or communism when they were fighting against the oppressors. Really, I have no idea why you are bringing them up, it must be a manifestation of your mental inability to formulate coherent and proper arguments.
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And please don't make things up, like saying that I want SK/KRG to become exactly like the West or the USA. You clearly haven't read all my posts, I have critiziced the USA many times.
You want SK to have a market economy and to open its natural resources up the world market a la laissez-faire. This position is compliant with Western interests in the Middle-East, and that tells us more than enough about your stance towards the West.
Alan
 
In 1991 there was no US consulate in SK we didn't have 45 billion barrels of oil discovered and 100 trillion cbf of gas wasn't found either, nor did we have Exxon and Chevron in SK.
Well, maybe some of us do not want a US consulate in SK, 45 billion barrels of oil and 100 cbf of gas to be discovered, and Exxon and Chevron robbing our country of the stuff that will provide us our livelihoods in the future, in the first place?
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You guys are arguing something that is done and dusted
I absolutely see no reason why this statement can be considered an 'argument' in any conceivable way. I am sorry but this must be the most stupid logic I have yet encountered in this debate. The assimiliation of groups of Kurds in Turkey is "done and dusted" too, does that mean we should make no efforts to reverse or halt the process?

If the KRG makes no efforts to render available better alternatives for exporting oil, like approaching the PYD(which they hate) to make them do a military offensive towards the Mediterranean coast, and helping them out with the logistical and material preparations for that operation, the more competent patriots amongst us will just blow up the pipeline of shame if we have to, like the PKK has been doing in several campaigns over the years.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/07/04/us-iraq-oil-pipeline-idUSTRE6630OL20100704
http://www.ekurd.net/mismas/articles/misc2012/4/turkey3872.htm
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US does not like us but they sure will make sure the oil in SK gets to the intl markets, and stupid Kemalists have no support from west no more so I don't see where you and Azamat's worry coming from?
Turkey is the strongest power in the Western sphere of influence in the Middle-East, and its status as a strong power under that sphere of influence is crucial to the West's interests against the Russian-Iranian sphere of influence that seems to be spreading. In this political arena, the Kurds represent an annoying obstruction responsible for nothing but war, instability and "terrorism"(we are known in the West as terrorists) in the region. No foreign power will side with us in the event of conflict - like I said, believing that they will borders on delusion.
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That we are watching Turkish shows which ARE translated verbally into Kurdish? Well before we use to have iracki TV shows in ARABIC!!! This is a weak argument to use!
I can't believe you have just defended the propagation of Turkish culture in Kurdish society. I just can't believe it. I have no words to describe my disappointment in this, when we in the North have for 90 years resisted all efforts to Turkify us, and impose the culture of the Turks on us.
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As SK is very patriot and you can see their effort has paid off compared to other parts of greater Kurdistan!
SK is liberated despite of the KDP and the PUK, with their retarded civil war and the collaboration with Saddam and Turkey, not because of them.
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Actually at least the north part of EK stood up and got itself a republic even thou it was short but it showed their kurdish patriosm!
And so did NK, where we too established a Republic that we defended to the last man and where we attempted 5 bloody rebellions in spite of repeated massacres, crimes and continuous efforts at assimilation and erasion attempted against us.

Your denigrating insinuations towards Northern Kurds are one of the most repudent things I have read so far. Sorry, but I will take a break from this board for a while. Bye.
Azamat, you're clearly not from South-Kurdistan. We have a different mentality and Kurds from SK want the best for Kurds.
You're a communist and therefore not suitable for South-Kurdistan. I advise you not to interfer in SK politics or economics.
We have family & friends who are in SK's & Baghdad's parliament and in the military. We have friends & family who have heavily invested in SK and made a fortune out of it.
Even Gorran, the Change Party List, wouldn't agree with your communist views.

''Maybe some of us don't want a US consulate in Kurdistan.''

That's fine. You don't have to have a US Consulate in North-Kurdistan. But there is one in South-Kurdistan and it's a great asset to the Kurdish nation. It connects SK with the world.
And whether you like it or not: the United States is still the most powerful nation in the world.

The day a Kurdish government counts on a communist policy, is the day Kurdistan will never become a reality. In the 1940's, when the Republic of Mahabad was established, it was betrayed by the most powerful Communist nation in the world: The Soviet-Union. Only after a year or so the republic was crushed and the Soviet-Union didn't care a tiny bit.

Communist/Marxism is a hopeless ideology. Main reason is because it is not supported by the rest of the world. If SK, a country with a lot of natural resources and potential, turns into a communist state, this will not be accepted by the rest of the world. Maybe by the dictators in North-Korea and Cuba, but that will be it. SK will be once again isolated from the rest of the world and the oil will be, like you seem to want, useless. People won't be able to study abroad, to use the money to rebuild Kurdistan and increase the quality of life, etc.

Azamat, you're just a delusional and confused kid. Using hard words doesn't make you look more intelligent. On the contrary; it makes you look stupid. Because it means that you're not capable of explaining what you really think in normal words, words the average man understands.

Communism will never work in South-Kurdistan. All this blood has not been shed so a small group of filthy communists can come and take over everything and force the people to do what they like to do. Because that is what communism is. Don't deny this please, the ideology didn't work in a single communist country. And studies have proven that it will never work. And no, it won't be different with Serok Ocalan as the leader. The PKK in Syria (YPG) is already working against the KDP. And this is just the beginning.

Her Biji Kurdistan!
:kflag:
biji kurd u kurdistan !!
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ALAN
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Guys we have all expressed our opinion. let us not derail the topic anymore, anything unrelated will be erased.

Alan


back to the topic, the current SK-turkey oil pipelines U/C :)
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Russian Girenak Joseph, who visited Kirkuk in Kurdistan as a part of his tour throu the 1870 - 1873 AD, who published the results of his trip & his studies later in 1879, in the 4th volume in the Bulletin of the Caucasus department of the Royal Geographical Russian Society estimated Kirkuk's population as many as 12-50,000 people, & he emphasized that except 40 Christian families, the rest of the population were Kurds. As for The Turkmen & Arabs, they have not been already existed at the time.
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Kinematik
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A L A N
Jun 23 13, 5:04
Kinematk it's nothing but BS irack and turkey oil deal is non existence simply bcos the two countries don't border each other south Kurdistan isn't irack ;-) thus turkey doesn't give two shits about what irack has to utter for itself. Also irack will not get projects like this bcos of all the daily routine bombing thus this is S.Kurdistan not irack :)

That is a good way to distinguish by the bombs xD for the west of course irackis very well know they have 0 control over S.Kurdistan.
Alan, have you seen that turkey now say that they wont allow pipelines from KRG to cross the boarder without an agreement between KRG and Baghdad?

I see this as that they give Baghdad a chance to save their face and agree and sign the hydrocarbon law.

We will see when Barzani returns from russia and goes to Baghdad.
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Zlatan10
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one question: will i-rack get any money for the oil KRG sell ??
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Worldwar2boy
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Zlatan10
Jun 25 13, 9:03
one question: will i-rack get any money for the oil KRG sell ??
No, they have to pay us money from the oil they sell. They won't get a dollar from us :).
biji kurd u kurdistan !!
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ALAN
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Zlatan10
Jun 25 13, 9:03
one question: will i-rack get any money for the oil KRG sell ??
No our share is 17% of the yearly budget we will sell just enuff to get the 17% ourself directly rather than wait for Baghdad and now KRG gets to deduct peshmerga budget which Baghdad owe us since 2007. And ssc troll will stop whining like girls.
Russian Girenak Joseph, who visited Kirkuk in Kurdistan as a part of his tour throu the 1870 - 1873 AD, who published the results of his trip & his studies later in 1879, in the 4th volume in the Bulletin of the Caucasus department of the Royal Geographical Russian Society estimated Kirkuk's population as many as 12-50,000 people, & he emphasized that except 40 Christian families, the rest of the population were Kurds. As for The Turkmen & Arabs, they have not been already existed at the time.
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Kinematik
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Worldwar2boy
Jun 25 13, 11:44
Zlatan10
Jun 25 13, 9:03
one question: will i-rack get any money for the oil KRG sell ??
No, they have to pay us money from the oil they sell. They won't get a dollar from us :).
Ehhh! Wrong! Bagdad gets 83% and KRG 17% after the oilcompanies have got their share.

All according to the constitution.
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ALAN
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^^ KRG will only export what the 17% allows it so it will not export more than the 17% worth plus deducting all other dues Baghdad owes south Kurdistan like Peshmerga budget for eg now totally almost 5 billion USD.
Russian Girenak Joseph, who visited Kirkuk in Kurdistan as a part of his tour throu the 1870 - 1873 AD, who published the results of his trip & his studies later in 1879, in the 4th volume in the Bulletin of the Caucasus department of the Royal Geographical Russian Society estimated Kirkuk's population as many as 12-50,000 people, & he emphasized that except 40 Christian families, the rest of the population were Kurds. As for The Turkmen & Arabs, they have not been already existed at the time.
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the SUN child
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ZAGROS-ARYAN

I'm not sure but all I know is that 17% of oil revenue of old oil wells (Kerkûk) + 17% of 83% and while the revenues of new discovered oil wells will go straight to South Kurdistan government.

But, if we only get ONLY 17% + 17% of 88% of revenue from Kerkûk, we will also get 17% of i-rack, oil shares of oils wells in Basra and those fields are GIANT.


So we Kurds will lose nothing!
Edited by the SUN child, Jun 26 13, 10:22.
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